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Martin Bashir

News/Business. Journalist Martin Bashir uncovers breaking news stories. New.

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Karl Rove 17, Us 11, Romney 7, Paul Ryan 7, Washington 6, Boehner 6, John Boehner 5, Jay Carney 4, Obama 4, Tommy Thompson 4, Karen Finney 3, Mr. Rove 3, Mr. Tyler 3, Janesville 2, New York 2, Nato 2, James Peterson 2, Nbc 2, Tamiflu 2, America 2,
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  MSNBC    Martin Bashir    News/Business. Journalist Martin  
   Bashir uncovers breaking news stories. New.  

    November 13, 2012
    1:00 - 2:00pm PST  

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she was harassed by petraeus' mistress. >> this feels a little homeland. >> it's not homeland, it's melrose place. >> but as the world turns, conservative confusion continues. >> the election is behind us and we're ready to get started. joob we start making tracks to abandon our principles. >> we have to become more moderate? >> latinos are calling this cinc o denio. it wasn't enough at the end of the day. >> mr. president, over to you. >> i'm open to new ideas, but i refuse to accept any approach that isn't balanced. ♪ we begin with an action-packed day in washington. fallout from the petraeus affair is turning into a nesting doll of military indiscretions. a scandal now involving general john allen, the man nominated to
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be the supreme commander of nato. general allen is being investigated for alleged inappropriate contact, a veritable treasure trove of e-mail correspondence with jill kelley, the woman who online activities led to the investigation of paula broadwell. for his part general al sentence denying misconduct, but the scandal goes further because an internal fbi inquiry has been launched into the agent who started the investigation. a senior government official has told nbc news that the agent sent topless photos of himself to jill kelley prior to the investigation. at today's white house briefing spokesman jay carney was hit by a barrage of questions. >> how is it that the white house didn't have any idea of this until the day after the election? >> is the president as commander in chief at all worried about a culture -- an inappropriate culture in the military. >> what's the president's reaction to this? is he disgusted? is he embarrassed?
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>> does the president see this in general as an unwelcome distraction? >> well, i certainly i think wouldn't call it welcome. >> not welcome, indeed, and you'd think there was nothing else going on in washington, but, in fact, the president is already engaged in the fight to define his second term. after a decisive election win, he must now translate that victory into shaping policy and in the short term steering clear of the so-called fiscal cliff. today the president met with labor and progressive leaders at the white house, the first of several meetings aimed at avoiding automatic tax increases and spending cuts at the beginning of the new year. the president has made no secret of his wanting to raise taxes on the wealthy as part of a balanced approach to reducing the deficit. a point jay carney made again today. >> one thing we know about the president's plan is that the numbers add up, and i think if nothing else over the course of this past year, we've earned
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some credibility on the fact that we know our arithmetic. >> indeed. the american people affirmed that view with their votes and in exit polls with 60% of voters agreeing taxes should go up on the rich or on everyone. that includes 40% of those who voted for romney/ryan. so has the gop listened and learned from the voters who defeated them? paul ryan is among the members returning to capitol hill today as congress gets back to work. so what does he have to say? >> it was a well-run campaign. we made this campaign about big ideas and big issues, which is the kind of campaign we wanted to run, so we ran the kind of campaign we wanted to run, and it just wasn't enough at the end of the day and we just have to accept that. >> big ideas, big issues that lost. it seems acceptance is the final stage of grief. let's get to our panel now. in washington msnbc political analyst david corn, author of "showdown" and here in new york joy reid, who is managing editor
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of the grio and william cohen, an author and columnist for the bloomberg view. if i can start with you, joy, if we might take a momentary break from days of lives centcom edition, this week is crucial for the president in terms of setting his agenda for the second term. >> the president now has to take the victory he won in the election which was decisive in an electoral sense, it was a landslide. and to take that mandate and convince the people on the other side of the aisle that that election actually happened, that they need to accept the results of it and part of the result of it is that the american people ratified the idea that the wealthiest 1% are going to have to pay more taxes. that has got to be a part of any final plan for the president's own credibility. that's what he ran on, been campaigning on for more than a year, and that's what the american people asked for. republicans are going to have to accept it. >> david, you of course, chronicled the last showdown between the president and how republicans in your book which sent me into a spiral of
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depression upon reading it. >> the people should still buy it anyway, right? >> do you see any positive signs from house republicans or are we more likely to see topless pictures of speaker boehner before we see a willingness to compromise. >> i wish i could get that imagine out of my head. >> i apologize but that's the reality. >> maybe yours. everybody is saying, look, john boehner has talked about the possible of raising revenues, he looks really reasonable now. he hasn't said no. the big question is, we've talked about this since the election, you and i and others, that what's at stake here is whether boehner can actually cut a deal and still remain speaker of the house. that is there isn't a mutiny, there isn't an opening on the right for a rebellion against him. he could not do that last time around in the summer of 2011 when the president tried to reach this grand bargain with him. it was clear to people working with him and in the room, democrats and members of the
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administration, that he himself would have cut that deal and would have, you know, walked away and held the president's hand and said look what we can do when we're adults in washington. but he was told by members of his own party, if you do that, our speakership is done for. so the question is after this election, does he have any more leverage, any more leeway having suffered the loss? >> and the answer to that question is? >> joy just said, listen, the president has to convince the republicans that it's time to make a deal. it may take more than just convincing the republicans. i think the president has to continue to campaign. i know you don't want to hear that, and just keep public pressure on the republicans even though they're in gerrymander district and try to pring bring over 5, 10, 20 republicans in the senate. it's going to be very hard. >> there you go. there's the answer. bill, conservative commentator bill crystal says the gop should go ahead and let the bush tax
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expire, particularly for the wealthy. >> it's president obama's proposal. he ran on it. let him implement it. it things slow down, it's his fault and that's fine with me. and i hope things don't slow down. i hope we get real tax reform in 2013. i think picking the fight right now on the expiring bush tax cuts is a mistake. >> can the president allow all of the tax cuts to expire given the impact that's predicted on the economy? >> look, one hopes that these warrings factions that we have in washington will reach a compromise before january 1st. >> but david corn says that's virtually impossible. >> i don't understand what's so hard about this because the other thing that bill kristol said is that back when the economy was strong, he referenced 82 to 85 in the reagan administration when marginal tax rates were 50%, the other time the economy was really strong was during the second clinton administration when marginal tax rates were 39.6%. that's what president obama is
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talking about doing. going back to 39.6%. the economy took off. this should be a no-brainer. you're asking people to pay a little bit more to help out the whole fiscal health of the nation. come on. it's time to -- people have been partying since it's been 1999 for like 25 years. it's time to do this very simple thing. >> martin, i would submit what's so hard about it is january 3rd is still ahead of john boehner. he still has to be reb elected speaker by his own caucus. i think the question is can he make this deal before january 1st and still retain his speakership. >> you're saying to me now that the speaker of the house of representatives is more concerned about his continuance in a position that he holds than the nation's economy? >> well, i don't know if it's more he's concerned. i think john boehner feels he should still be in leadership. >> so his personal ap biggs is more important. >> and he is -- more than that, he's practically a hostage so the same 87 tea partiers who are
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not there. they're still there in the lame duck congress. they have not changed their minds on these issues and i think the problem for him is that he goes into january 3rd making a deal like this and raising taxes, he probably -- or he may not be speaker on january 3rd. >> david, you have been wanting to get in. >> let me defend john boehner because i usually don't get to do that, so i would like to give a stab. it's not just that he's concerned about his own speakership, but he has to have enough votes to get something to pass. now, the question is can he actually get a split in his caucus and deliver enough votes with enough democrats and some democrats probably won't support a compromise but probably enough will to make it happen if they see the republicans coming together. the question is not just personally himself can he ri main as speaker, it's really can he get enough people in his own caucus, in that tea party dominated caucus, to support any compromise that will have some reasonable revenue enhancements in it. and that's a really big open
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question. >> i get that. fair enough, david, but, bill, does that mean that the election as far as that caucus is concerned is rendered meaningless? >> well, it better not because if they do nothing, if they don't compromise, come january 3rd, as joy said, all the taxes are going to go up for all americans. i don't see how even if you're a republican in congress, even if you're a tea party member of a republican in congress, you could want to support taxes going up for your constituents in your districts. i don't understand it. this to me is a no-brainer. a compromise is so clearly not only in the best interests of the politicians but also in the best interests of the american economy. >> can i just reblind for one quick second. remember the debt ceiling fight. there were enough people willing to go over the edge. you can't talk about this being a no-brainer -- >> you still have the same extremists, the sort of rejectionist wing of the party. they're still there and they're not going to leave until the new congress comes in. i would submit that, first of
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all, the world isn't going to end on january 1st if they all expire. what will happen is republicans will have a lot more incentives to make a deal. john boehner will then have gotten his speakership back and i think he will be in a stronger position. if you let them go every republican can vote for a tax cut. hr-1 i can bet is a middle class tax cut. >> that's semantics. i don't know why people would want to bring it to the brink ben. of course, they had the debate with the debt ceiling and the same thing they did with the t.a.r.p. they voted it down and then voted it up. >> it's a crazy way to govern but there we have it. speaker boehner, topless or otherwise. joy reid, david corn, and bill cohen, thank you all. apologies to david for that offensive anal si. coming up, congress is back, the fiscal cliff is near. will house republicans finally think of the good of the country and not the good of this guy? >> the president was committed -- elected on the basis that he was not romney and that romney was a poopy head and
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well, count grover norquist among the walking wounded after last week's election because a new report says the man responsible for the infamous anti-tax pledge doesn't have the same influence that he once did. the hill reports about a dozen newly elected house republicans refuse to sign the anti-tax pledge during their campaigns, and another handful of returning republicans have disavowed their allegiance to the written commitment. for more we go to peter welsh of
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vermont who like many of his colleagues is back in washington. good afternoon, sir. great to see you. >> likewise. >> that report says there are at least 20 fewer house republicans who have signed the pledge. also, that the pledge no longer commands a majority of votes in the house. we know the president now has a mandate. does grover norquist still have one? >> he doesn't. in fact, there were 40 republicans who signed a letter to the speaker during the debt ceiling negotiations to the super committee and said go big, and that included putting revenues on the table. so i think there's going to be a lot more room among rank and file republicans to make revenues a part of the solution. >> but there are still 250 of them who signed the original pledge, sir. >> well, that's right. and this is going to be the big test for speaker boehner because he's talking like he wants to have revenues as part of it but he's using vague generalities and using sort of a romney plan that you can find it in the tax code. in reality the arithmetic doesn't add up if he's talking about the charitable interest
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deduction, mortgage deduction. the question for mr. boehner is show us the money. >> mitch mcconnell spoke hours ago sounding not at all like he heard last week's election results. >> the time for the president to lead is now, and that means offering a concrete plan that takes into account the fact that half the congress opposes tax hikes. >> congressman, did the election happen? do i wake or sleep? what is this man talking about? >> well, he's kind of out of it. here is the dilemma he has that really he has got to think about whether he can maintain his leadership position. he could be the next richard mourdock. he's got a tea party group in his state going -- that's going to be after him in the next election. so what he's got to do to try to appease them is totally in conflict with what the leader of the republicans in the senate has to do for the good of the
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country. and it's an internal conflict and i don't see how he resolves it. >> what you're basically say something what we were discussing in the earlier segment, which is these individuals are out solely to protect themselves rather than the condition of the american economy? >> well, that's what i think senator mcconnell is doing because clearly even the exit polls showed that half the folks who supported romney were in favor of taxing the wealthy. they know that has to be part of any kind of grand bargain to have a serious and sustainable debt deal. and mr. mcconnell has to know that, but the tea party folks back in his state will hang him if he does that. so he's got this irreconcilable conflict between his responsibilities as senate leader and his responsibilities -- and his own ambition to be reb elected in kentucky. >> wow. "the new york times" reports democrats may be receptive to mitt romney's idea to cap income deductions as part of a bipartisan trade-off.
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be honest, is that true, or are democrats just having fun at mr. romney's expense? >> no, that's true. that could be part of it. in other words, if what romney was talking about was putting a cap on deductions that would apply for folks say over $250,000 -- >> i think he described it in terms of a bucket, a bucket theory. >> it wouldn't get us to where it would need to be, so there would still have to be going back towards those clinton rates on folks above $250,000, but limiting deductions for people in the really high brackets could be part of it. in fact, that would deal with the hedge fund rip-off really where folks who claim that their income is all capital gains, pay 14%, this is the mitt romney deal, forevus everyone else in their income category paying 30%, 35%. >> congressman, final question, are you confident that some kind of agreement can be reached before january 3rd? >> i'm hopeful, but i'm not at all confident. in fact, i'm very skeptical. >> hang on a second.
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you started with hopeful and now you're skeptical. >> i'm very skeptical. >> you're very skeptical. >> that's right. >> congressman peter welch, thank you, sir. >> thank you. coming up, good job he didn't quit his day job. budget guru, marathon man, and losing vice presidential candidate paul ryan is back on capitol hill. >> i respect the fact that the process is done, that the president won the race, and i congratulate him on the race. we now have divided government like we did before. the divided government we had in the last two years didn't work. we're going to have to make this divided government work. [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus presents the cold truth. i have a cold... i took dayquil, but i still have a runny nose. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't work on runny noses. what? [ male announcer ] it doesn't have an antihistamine. really? [ male announcer ] really. alka-seltzer plus cold and cough fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a fast acting antihistamine to relieve your runny nose. [ sighs ] thank you! [ male announcer ] you're welcome.
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some people put everything intotheir name on the door, and their heart into their community. small business saturday is a day to show our support. a day to shop at stores owned by our friends and neighbors. and do our part for the businesses that do so much for us. on november 24th, let's get out and shop small. paul ryan is back, though perhaps a little chastened by some of his strongest supporters. don't believe me though, believe the voters in his hometown of janesville because they voted against him twice. the milwaukee journal sentinel
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reports he lost his hometown of janesville by ten points for congress and 25 points for vice president. well, they do know him best. joining us now from washington, nbc's kelly o'donnell. good afternoon. >> hello, martin. >> paul ryan won his district by his smallest margin to date and the severe austerity he supported does not seem to have won re-election. does he return to congress perhaps with a little less swagger albeit retaining his 6% body fat? >> well, we have had some experience on capitol hill watching those who have lost a big election come back. you had john mccain four years ago, john kerry eight years ago. so it is different because during the weeks after he was put on the romney ticket, there was a lot offed a you'll lation for paul ryan here. it is different now. and he comes back and we expect he'll get his same position as the head of the house budget committee. that requires a special waiver because he's had that job for the maximum amount of time.
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he's still well-regarded by his republican colleagues and i think you get a sense that he's been through a challenging election period. we'll have to see how much of a public posture he wants to have going forward, and so ryan is back, but we don't yet have a measure of how influential he will be. >> what sway then, kelly, do you think he has in the fiscal cliff negotiations? >> everything we're getting a sense of is that this will be a negotiation that at least on front stage will be between speaker boehner and president obama. and so boehner is certainly influenced by ryan's knowledge of the budget, but i don't think that this is going to be a case where he will be at the bargaining table, if you will. so, again, republicans respect what he knows about the budget, the budget that was passed that bears his name is really old news in many ways now. they know they have to move off of that and do some new things. >> yes, because that didn't really help him in the presidential election, did it? >> well, that's something that certainly people brought up and it became a part of the campaign which, you know, perhaps didn't work in their favor.
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>> okay. one last topic, if i may, kelly, what can you tell us about the future of house minority leader nancy pelosi because she's made some comments this morning, i believe. >> she is planning to tell all of us what her future is tomorrow morning. nan nancy pelosi has been the leader of democrats in the house. she was the first woman speaker, and there was some questions of whether she would stay on in a leadership position in the new congress because she had not been able to win as many democratic seats as they had hoped even though she raised a lot of money and did a lot of work for candidates. so that question was there, should the democrats have a new leader? perhaps steny hower, perhaps jim clyburn, what we don't know is what her final decision is. tonight there's a whole series of meetings and get-togethers as members come back and she will make it known tomorrow. that's something to stay tuned for. >> any hint of what she's going to say? >> i would say her posture coming back, she certainly looks confident and engaged.
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that might lead me to think she wants to stay in power, but we don't know for certain. >> absolutely. nbc's kelly o'donnell, thanks so much. >> you bet. coming up, a soul searching s'more gmorgasbord in the repub party. a gentleman named eric thought it would be a good idea to have the romney/ryan logo tootto tooed on his face. i wonder if laser removal would be covered under obama care? that would be ironic.
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that was occurring in urban areas, it did come as a bit of the shock. >> i'm the primary reason the republican party will keep losing. >> you get the government you deserve, you get obama and good luck with that. >> a big supporter in indiana thought it a good idea to have the romney/ryan logo tattooed on his face. >> people are furious with you right now. >> i did the best i could. >> i wonder if laser removal is covered under obama care. >> do you want to smoke drugs, fine? >> don't judge me monkey. >> the idea we have to become more moderate? >> mitt has already lined himself up a flomax commercial. >> when you hear the words conservative they think of loons and wackos. >> they've been fleeced, exploited, and lied to. >> latinos are calling this cinco denio. >> good days, bad days. >> he changed his name to pablo ryan. >> you can be stoned and still love your country.
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>> if women think their abortion rights are under siege, they're living in a different country. >> republicans have done a pathetic job communicating what conservatism does. >> it's the height of man's arrogance to presume what jesus would vote for. >> did you know that there's an elephant in our green room? >> and newt's wife. >> i think the republican con l consultant model is profound lie wrong. >> ellis will not talk. evidently he needs to be paid. >> it was a well-run campaign. we made this campaign about big ideas and big issues. >> let's get right to our panel. msnbc political analyst karen finney is a former communications director of the democratic national committee and professor james peterson is director of african studies at lehigh university. welcome to you both. professor, we just saw mike huckabee there, a former presidential candidate, telling jon stewart that his party does a pathetic job communicating to nonwhite voters. but is it really just communication or was it their apparent belief that nonwhites want free stuff and food stamps
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that caused the real problems? >> it is. you're right. so what they do is they effectively communicate their disdain for the 47% for women, for people of color, for poor folk, and so i think they are being very, very effective in their communication. it's just what are they communicating through all the racialized discourses we have chronicled on your show, for all the ways in which they dismiss poverty, dismiss ideas about the ways in which our society has to work with those folk who need support at certain times in their life. they refer to them as 47% or the takers or the moochers or whatever. they're effective at communicating what they've wanted to communicate so far, martin, and that's why they are where they are as a party right now. >> karen, it's hard not to regard the republican response as patronizing and cynical. they lose the election and they think all they need to do is offer some quick response on immigration and latinos will flock to their candidate. it doesn't sound that different from holding up a picture of
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condoleezza rice and saying, look, we have a black woman on our side. when will they realize that tokenism doesn't register as genuine policy? >> you know, i think there are some people within the republican party who recognize it and i think there's some who recognize that the problem they have is a two-cycle problem. this is not a problem they're going to solve in the next three years with a little spit and polish, right? they may solve it in terms of some senate races here and there, but in terms of a national election, i think one of the things president obama proved is you cannot win, some of us have been saying this for several years now, without a broad coalition of voters, and i think that -- let me just take one example. on the war on women, we've had two years of republicans telling american women it was all in our heads, that we're crazy to think -- there's no war on women. even that clip of bill o'reilly saying if you think your abortion rights are under siege -- >> you're living in another country. >> right. but the tone and tenor of the conversation, not even just about access to abortion care services, but to birth control got so out of control in the states and at the national level
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that we were -- women were furious, so by the time akin and mourdock came along, that was the last straw. i mean, a lot of these guys are pointing to those comments and saying that was our problem. no, your problem is you were disrespecting women for the last two years and we're sick of it and we're not going to let you drag us backwards in terms of the progress we've made. that's the problem. so i think until they understand the fundamental problems, you're right, it's not going to work. >> so that's the gender issue, but, professor, the president reportedly scored a unanimous victory, and i'm quoting, in 59 voting divisions in philadelphia. mr. romney received no votes whatsoever. in cleveland the president was the unanimous choice of voters in nine precincts. some republicans suggest that perhaps these results aren't legitimate. paul ryan claims to be shocked by the turnout in urban areas, but it's obvious, isn't it? these are the facts. >> these are the facts. these are legitimate.
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i'm sure they will be vetted and looked over but they will turn out to be legitimate. it's not the first time this has happened. it happened in 2008 in some precincts in some densely populated, largely african-american areas, mccain received zero votes. it might take on more of a story sort of sensibility now because we do have this -- people think of our country as being divided along racial lines but you have to look where those neighborhoods are. north 23philadelphia, west philadelphia, densely populated, predominantly african-american and latino neighborhoods, there are very, very informed voters in those neighborhoods. it's easy for people to get out the vote and organize the voting populations in those kinds of neighborhoods. again, at the end of the day you have to ask yourself if you're romney/ryan, if you're the republicans, are you even speaking to those people at all in any kind of respectable or respectful way when it comes to politics? >> i think the answer is no from that election. karen, another problem for republicans is that they can't trust anyone under 30. exit polls show that young
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voters made up a larger share of the overall electorate this year and they broke in favor of the president by a margin of 24 points. i mean, does this reveal when young people think about their future, they don't think about the republican party? >> yes, and actually one statistic i love to remind republicans of is with younger voters, those first-time voters, if you get them to vote three times in an -- so three times if they vote democratic, they're pretty much going to be democrats for life. and so a lot of these younger people who voted for president obama, this is their second time, my friend. we're going to probably get them a third time and that means we're expanding the pool of democrats. again, this is a systemic problem that republicans had. we talked about this in 2007 and 2008 when none of their candidates really went and talked to their college republicans. time and again they have ignored the reality and the changes in this country. they're not talking to younger voters, and, frankly, if they start to pay attention to younger voters, the other rude awakening they're up for is younger voters, millennials,
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very multicultural, far more independent in their thinking, i don't care who you marry as long as you don't tell me who i marry. they're much more progressive. so the country is changing and the republican party has to decide, i said this before, you can keep hiding under the covers and pretend it's not but you're going to lose. or you can get in the game and recognize that this country is changing and you've got to speak to those changes and the reality of the life that people are living in 21st century america. >> in the light of that, karen, professor, one full week since election day we're finally hearing from louisiana governor bobby jindal. he says there's been enough of, quote, dumbed-down conservatism and that republicans can't be the party of big business and big banks. but if you take that out, what's left? >> well, not much according to what we've seen in terms of the republican presidential primary process. karen is right here. when he just look at the
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mathematics of the demographics of this country, the republican party can't consist of the sort of social policies that they have been pushing, of the ways in which they kind of ail yebt the very demographics that are emerging but it's going to take allotted more than lip service from people like governor jindal to make the kind of changes we're talking about. they have to try to become younger, more diverse, less about religion and more about women's rights. it's a very, very complicated transformation they have to undergo. the democratic party has to do some of that work as well. the democrats also have to look at the progressive caucus within their own sort of constituency and make sure they're honoring the coalition that put president obama back in office. >> and, you know, that's a really important point because we will not have barack obama on the ticket in four years, and so whoever is our democratic nominee has to understand you're going to have to work for the black and brown vote and the youth vote. >> exactly. >> that's an opportunity for the democratic party but also an opportunity for black and brown folks to come together and say
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now is the time to get our issues on the table, to make sure we are part of the conversation, that they don't just show up two weeks before an election and try to tell us what they think we want to hear. we are here to stay. >> one week after the election and karen finney is thinking about the next one. karen finney and professor james peterson, thank you so much. coming up, you did build this. karl rove. hey sis, it's so great to see you. you, too! oh, cloudy glasses. you didn't have to come over! actually, honey, i think i did... oh? you did? whoa, ladies, easy. hi. cascade kitchen counselor. we can help avoid this with cascade complete pacs. over time, the other premium pac can leave cloudy, hard water deposits, but cascade complete pacs help leave glasses sparkling. shiny! too bad it doesn't work on windows. okay, i'm outta here. more dishwasher brands in north america recommend cascade.
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now might not be the best time, but could i borrow $300 million? is that possible? >> do you believe that ohio has been settled? >> no, i don't. i think this is premature. >> karl is in big trouble. they're going to take his
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thumbs, and karl is almost all thumb. >> as the republican party undergoes a period of self-reflection to better understand its defeat at the presidential polls last week, one man appears to be taking the most heat. not mitt romney and not paul ryan, but karl rove. mr. rove took mornd $300 million from conservative donors on a promise that he would deliver mitt romney to the white house. sadly for mr. rove and painfully for his donors, it didn't quite work out. joining us now is rick tyler, who is a former spokesman for the great newt gingrich and he also worked on the senate campaign for todd akin, and ken vogel is chief investigative reporter for politico. if i can start with you, rick, you make an appearance in ken's extensive story calling karl rove a colossal failure and then you say this, i don't think donors are ever going to invest in that level again because it turns out the architect didn't know what he was talking about. what do you mean, that karl rove
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didn't know what he was talking about, mr. tyler? >> well, karl rove makes great tv and he's interesting to read in "the wall street journal," but after karl rove lost the gingrich majority, i always questioned karl rove. remember, karl rove was the one who designed the second bush campaign where george w. bush won and then claimed to have enough political capital to reform social security. of course he didn't. i had assembled more people that hated john kerry than john kerry assembled that hated george bush. that doesn't lead to a man date for governance. that's a mandate for gridlock which is exactly what we got. >> mr. tyler, how do you explain karl rove's power within republican circles? are people simply stupid? are they prepared to part with their money because he's a persuasive salesman? >> no, a lot of people that give to karl rove are very smart people, they're entrepreneurs and they do great work. i'm hearing from them now. and karl rove is ver persuasive.
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when you talk to him, he knows his stuff but he didn't know his stuff here. what it gets down to, martin, you had 14 million people who didn't show up in 2012 -- that turned out in 2008. you have to reduction of 14 million voters. that's very significant. that tells me this was not a national campaign, that it was a tactical campaign. therefore, the battleground states mattered. voter contact mattered. we lost every single one of the battleground states, and it turns out -- and i think it's actually sort of good news. one, you can't buy a presidential election. two, you can't just run ads and you can't just do robocalls. you actually have to have not points of contact but points of persuasion and i think this is where the obama camp just kicked our butts because i personally knew in my own town who i would contact if i wanted it get on board with the obama campaign. i couldn't tell you who to get a sign from from the romney campaign 37 it wasn't a point of persuasion, that is someone who i could identify on my caller
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i.d. calling me to telling me to vote for romney. it was a point of contact. you can't count points of contact. you have to build relationships with the communities. then all the ads work because they're just validaters. if you just run ads and do robocalls you're going to lose and that's what this party has to learn. >> ken, you found that some republicans are continuing to defend karl rove. now, why? because isn't the overbhem wheming evidence as mr. tyler has just said that he didn't know what he was talking about? >> well, he certainly holds great sway, and i agree with rick on that. he is very persuasive, but the sort of platform from which his aura, his reputation is built, is very much at risk right now because it's based not only on his relationship with these donors who he was telling that they were just so close if only they could get another $5 million, $10 million to being able to not just capture the white house for mitt romney but win some key senate states and now they're kind of questioning, hey, what you were telling us this stuff, is that because you just wanted our money or because
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you didn't actually have a grasp of the data and that is the other piece of the platform on which he's built his reputation, this idea that he's a master of the data, that he is on top of the polling and that he is on top of the tactics that are sort of most useful in tipping elections. in this case we have both of those things, legitimate questions being raised about both of those things, and he's going to need to do a good bit of sort of damage control in order to be in this position again. it's interesting though, we see him not retreating at all. in fact, doubling down saying that crossroads and the groups with which he's involved are going to expand their role headed into 2014 and 2016 -- >> good luck with that. rick, on election night itself, mr. rove appeared to be performing the role of king lear. nothing comes of nothing, that way madness lies. but since then he's blamed hurricane sandy. he says the president somehow suppressed the republican vote. does he care about the republican party or is he
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actually more concerned about the fact that he may no longer be able to make million frtion docile republicans? >> i have been on record criticizing karl rove. look, i have no relationship with karl rove. i met him one time. i have never had a single business dealing with him, but i don't think it's right for someone person to have so much sway over the republican party. as far as i could tell, you know, the chairman of the republican party seems to work for karl rove. the nrsc, the senatorial committee, seemed to work for karl rove. that just is my analysis of it. now he wants to get involved in republican primaries because he says it wasn't his fault he had to run all the candidates that lost. well, i have two words for him, tommy thompson. tommy thompson lost wisconsin. tommy thompson was not a tea party candidate. tommy thompson is about as establishment as they get, and yet he, too, lost. i also learned that karl rove and the crossroads didn't actually focus group test their ads. they're so smart they just put up ads they thought were
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persuasive persuasive. turns out they weren't persuasive. yes, you need to have masters of data but you also need to have relationships with communities. the republican party has abandoned that model. when you look at african-american vote, latino vote, women's vote, all these votes, you have to have a relationship with them. then you build tres. then the ads will matter. lacking that, you're just a liar with a good ad. >> mr. tier, thank you for burying mr. karl rove and ken vogel, thank you both. >> coming up, next, a busy day for the president at the white house and we have the very latest. stay with us. frank, instead of scratching your way to retirement, get on e-trade. set up a real plan. frank! oh wow, you didn't win? i wanna show you something... it's my shocked face. [ gasps ] [ male announcer ] get a retirement plan that works... at e-trade. [ male announcer ] get a retirement plan that works...
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as the president met with labor leaders at the white house, his press secretary has been fielding questions about a scandal that has nothing to do with the fiscal cliff but has already seen the fall of one general and the investigation of
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another. joining us now is nbc white house correspondent kristin welker. first we had general david petraeus step down from the cia. now general allen's nomination to be the supreme commander of nato is on hold. what is the white house saying about general allen's situation, and is it possible that we could lose another senior commander to this scandal? >> well, look, it's certainly possible, but i think that the white house is taking a wait and see approach. today white house press secretary jay carney expressing the fact that the white house, the president, still has confidence in general allen. they want this investigation to play itself out. they're not going to snap to judgment. having said that, martin, i think it's safe to say that the president on down certainly stunned by these developments. not expecting this to be the focus of news reports in the days and weeks after the president gained re-election. so i think the white house is waiting to see how this investigation plays itself out, but they are certainly not
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pleased by what has been going on which started, of course, last week with general petraeus and now includes general allen. >> the president is planning to hold a press conference tomorrow, i believe. one assumes that he was hoping, as you say, to focus on the nation's economy as opposed to the private lives of his top generals. >> absolutely. and you saw during jay carney's press conference -- or jay carn carney's briefing rather, that the entire briefing was dominated by this topic. i think the president is probably expecting to get a number of questions on the topic of general petraeus tomorrow when he addresses correspondents. so i think this is not how the president wanted to start off his second term. obviously, he, lawmakers on capitol hill are really focused on the fiscal cliff, how to prevent it, what to do about it. the president trying to send a strong message of bipartisanship, saying to lawmakers we need to work together to get this resolved. we can't have another replay of what we saw during the summer of 2011 during the debt ceiling
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debate. this is not the type of press conference or the tone of the press conference certainly that the white house was hoping for. >> finally, kristin, if i may, it's also traditional for a re-elected president to refresh his cabinet. there's been speculation today that senator john kerry may be heading to the defense department. can you provide any clarity on this or indeed any other senior positions that may be up for grabs. >> of course, they're being tight-lipped. they haven't made any announcements yet but i think certainly it would not be a surprise to see senator kerry nominated for one of these positions, either department of defense or, of course, secretary of state. that's the other sort of role that his name has been floated for. so another person, of course, who is a potential is susan rice, but there are some questions about her handling of the benghazi incident. so she might not be a first pick, but we are still waiting to see what the president will decide. >> thanks so much, kristin. and we'll be right back.
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